Macginger
Mar 22, 01:24 PM
I want to know where to get a list of products that hook onto Thunderbolt.
Rocketman
google thunderbolt and you'll find it, or at least what people are planning on bringing out but it's out there :cool:
ok did it for you :)
http://www.lacie.com/us/index.htm
Rocketman
google thunderbolt and you'll find it, or at least what people are planning on bringing out but it's out there :cool:
ok did it for you :)
http://www.lacie.com/us/index.htm
polyesterlester
Aug 31, 05:49 PM
I have a feeling Ted Stevens won't appreciate Apple's movie store. It'll take his staff weeks to send him an internet.
AidenShaw
Sep 10, 11:53 PM
They ... are using buffered memory (slow)
Have you seen the benchmarks?
The Xeon systems scream, even with the "slow" memory.
While some contrived tests showed real latency issues with the FB-DIMM memory, for real-life applications the faster busses and large L2 caches make it a non-issue.
Focus on *system* performance, not on a particular detail.
Have you seen the benchmarks?
The Xeon systems scream, even with the "slow" memory.
While some contrived tests showed real latency issues with the FB-DIMM memory, for real-life applications the faster busses and large L2 caches make it a non-issue.
Focus on *system* performance, not on a particular detail.
0815
Apr 20, 12:46 PM
The fact that apple has a huge location database accessible by anybody with an app scares me. That's too much centralized data for somebody to do bad things with, even if it's not Apple. THAT is why this is a bad thing.
:confused::confused::confused: Apple has NOTHING ! and NOTHING is accessible by everybody (except the owner of the device)
The data is stored on YOUR phone and YOUR laptop ... Apple does not have a centralized database with that data - it is all on your devices.
THAT is why it is not a bad thing
The governments have those big databases, but that's a different story.
THAT is the bad thing
:confused::confused::confused: Apple has NOTHING ! and NOTHING is accessible by everybody (except the owner of the device)
The data is stored on YOUR phone and YOUR laptop ... Apple does not have a centralized database with that data - it is all on your devices.
THAT is why it is not a bad thing
The governments have those big databases, but that's a different story.
THAT is the bad thing
AidenShaw
May 3, 01:57 PM
And would the same setup work in bootcamp (ie using eyefinity)?
Probably, but it might depend on whether you can download the Windows 7 drivers from ATI, or whether you have to use Apple's dual boot drivers. (ATI's drivers would be much more likely to support all of the GPU features.)
Is TB able to have both channels send (or receive) at the same time?
Your question should be "can TBolt 'team' two channels for double bandwidth on one connection"?
For your question, the answer is "yes" if you can have two simultaneous 10 Gb/sec links. For my version, the answer is yes if you can have one 20 Gb/sec link.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20036002-1.html
Yes and anyway first you have to put it out there for other companies to make stuff for it. Business class 101 :rolleyes:
Shipping sometime this summer - so the answer is "no, there are no TBolt devices available to buy".
The real worry about this fact, though, is that no Apples have been tested with openly purchased TBolt peripherals. I wonder how many software updates, firmware revisions, or motherboard replacements will be needed before TBolt devices work reliably without kernel panics.
Probably, but it might depend on whether you can download the Windows 7 drivers from ATI, or whether you have to use Apple's dual boot drivers. (ATI's drivers would be much more likely to support all of the GPU features.)
Is TB able to have both channels send (or receive) at the same time?
Your question should be "can TBolt 'team' two channels for double bandwidth on one connection"?
For your question, the answer is "yes" if you can have two simultaneous 10 Gb/sec links. For my version, the answer is yes if you can have one 20 Gb/sec link.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20036002-1.html
Yes and anyway first you have to put it out there for other companies to make stuff for it. Business class 101 :rolleyes:
Shipping sometime this summer - so the answer is "no, there are no TBolt devices available to buy".
The real worry about this fact, though, is that no Apples have been tested with openly purchased TBolt peripherals. I wonder how many software updates, firmware revisions, or motherboard replacements will be needed before TBolt devices work reliably without kernel panics.
diamond.g
Apr 14, 02:14 PM
So is TB actually included in the chipset or does it still need a separate controller? Sandy Bridge and Intel 6-series chipsets already support Thunderbolt "capability". In my ears this sounds like TB will not be included in the chipset which makes this piece of news more or less useless. USB 3.0 support has been known for months now.
I am pretty sure the current Intel boards require a separate Thunderbolt controller chip. Ivy Bridge seems to be pulling that chip into the ICH. Same for USB3.
I am pretty sure the current Intel boards require a separate Thunderbolt controller chip. Ivy Bridge seems to be pulling that chip into the ICH. Same for USB3.
prady16
Sep 14, 09:06 AM
Have a look at the front page.
It doesn't mention anything about a keynote!
It doesn't mention anything about a keynote!
dmelgar
Mar 23, 05:15 PM
Censorship! Don't do it, Apple!
What, its ok for Apple to censor based on its whims, but not the government?
Actually I think they're both wrong. Shouldn't censor. Once the government starts censoring what information was can access, what else is next?
Bleep out phone calls is someone mentions a DUI checkpoint?
Remove all DUI checkpoint discussions from Google? Remove them entirely from the web?
Censorship is a slippery slope. Apple has invited this level of control because of their own Orwellian rules on the app store.
So much for freedom of speech. We are losing all our supposed 'freedoms' in this country at an alarming rate, and few care or notice.
What, its ok for Apple to censor based on its whims, but not the government?
Actually I think they're both wrong. Shouldn't censor. Once the government starts censoring what information was can access, what else is next?
Bleep out phone calls is someone mentions a DUI checkpoint?
Remove all DUI checkpoint discussions from Google? Remove them entirely from the web?
Censorship is a slippery slope. Apple has invited this level of control because of their own Orwellian rules on the app store.
So much for freedom of speech. We are losing all our supposed 'freedoms' in this country at an alarming rate, and few care or notice.
ten-oak-druid
Apr 4, 12:40 PM
bleeding hearts of the world!!! UNITE!!! lol!
HEADSHOT! FTW!
i have no sympathy to people that have obviously no respect for human life. they brought loaded weapons to use them if needed with lethal consequence. now they got wiped out. Good. i hope they screamed as they went into the wall with their friend's mind on their clothing. they made memories.
Yet if you feel no remorse for actually killing then you have your own problems. Glorified statements like yours are reserved for armchair vigilantes like yourself. If you actually kill, even in self defense, and feel no remorse, then you have your own problems.
HEADSHOT! FTW!
i have no sympathy to people that have obviously no respect for human life. they brought loaded weapons to use them if needed with lethal consequence. now they got wiped out. Good. i hope they screamed as they went into the wall with their friend's mind on their clothing. they made memories.
Yet if you feel no remorse for actually killing then you have your own problems. Glorified statements like yours are reserved for armchair vigilantes like yourself. If you actually kill, even in self defense, and feel no remorse, then you have your own problems.
bradc
Sep 10, 11:34 AM
Not naming names, but I find it funny how everyone suddenly becomes an engineer.:rolleyes:
daneoni
Aug 31, 09:03 PM
WHo cares, frankly i'm tired of all these Apple rumor crap. Its been three tuesdays in a row and we havent seen anything yet. Its been almost a year and we have no new iPods.
New resolution: I'll buy something when i need it. No more holding out for PowerBook G5 Tuesdays.......Psych!
PS I love my PowerBook!
New resolution: I'll buy something when i need it. No more holding out for PowerBook G5 Tuesdays.......Psych!
PS I love my PowerBook!
DeathChill
Apr 20, 08:41 PM
Wow. Good find. How is Apple even gonna dispute that.
Bottom Line, with this lawsuit, Apple has clearly declared they see Samsung as a very real threat. Samsung is MASSIVE. They are a true OEM. Look how they were able to pull off a revised Galaxy Tab 10.1 in a span of 2 months. That's true OEM muscle being flexed. Apple Knows this, hence their request to have the Galaxy devices removed from market.
What an absolute joke. I'm still a little shocked Apple is even suing.
Because, as it has been said on every single page, the image is flat out wrong. The Samsung F700 wasn't shown until AFTER the iPhone: February 2007.
Bottom Line, with this lawsuit, Apple has clearly declared they see Samsung as a very real threat. Samsung is MASSIVE. They are a true OEM. Look how they were able to pull off a revised Galaxy Tab 10.1 in a span of 2 months. That's true OEM muscle being flexed. Apple Knows this, hence their request to have the Galaxy devices removed from market.
What an absolute joke. I'm still a little shocked Apple is even suing.
Because, as it has been said on every single page, the image is flat out wrong. The Samsung F700 wasn't shown until AFTER the iPhone: February 2007.
g4tom
Sep 26, 09:54 AM
Check out the October issue of PC Magazine. This phone is on the cover as "what's hot now". It is made by LG. It is described just as the iPhone is being described. So the iPhone can't look like this or they will get sued. Or this is it and LG is making it for Apple???
johndoejohndoes
Apr 25, 04:17 PM
This is tight...but please....PLEASE!!! Have a ODD.
iMacZealot
Sep 17, 11:23 PM
Amen. the US dont use GSM, do they, it's CDMA, right?
Here (australia) we have both, kinda. All carriers run GSM, and while there is some locking of handsets (if you get a "free" phone on a contract) you can pay it out early, or move to a different carrier when the contract expires, or just buy your own phone.
I could NEVER imagine this whole "i want that phone by xyz carrier doesnt have it". Aren't you americans supposed to demand the best of everything!?
Dear God, please check your info before posting. We have many GSM carriers, and you can buy certain CDMA phones and use them on a different CDMA network. And you were talking about international roaming in other posts, well, we have that, here. Even CDMA that you bash so much has roaming options. My brother is using a dual CDMA/GSM phone on Sprint right now in London. And the international roaming rates are cheaper with US carriers compared to Vodafone Australia, depending on countries. We also have 3G CDMA and GSM based Cingular uses W-CDMA, so you're not the only ones there, either.
Here (australia) we have both, kinda. All carriers run GSM, and while there is some locking of handsets (if you get a "free" phone on a contract) you can pay it out early, or move to a different carrier when the contract expires, or just buy your own phone.
I could NEVER imagine this whole "i want that phone by xyz carrier doesnt have it". Aren't you americans supposed to demand the best of everything!?
Dear God, please check your info before posting. We have many GSM carriers, and you can buy certain CDMA phones and use them on a different CDMA network. And you were talking about international roaming in other posts, well, we have that, here. Even CDMA that you bash so much has roaming options. My brother is using a dual CDMA/GSM phone on Sprint right now in London. And the international roaming rates are cheaper with US carriers compared to Vodafone Australia, depending on countries. We also have 3G CDMA and GSM based Cingular uses W-CDMA, so you're not the only ones there, either.
azakmi2
Mar 7, 03:14 AM
The only way your iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch is vulnerable to these things is if YOU jailbreak it. Even then, the number of jail broken IOS devices is and will remain too small a target to go after. This is why Apple has a walled garden, and why the Android model is destined to follow the PC down the virus/botnet hell hole. It's also why AV vendors would prefer that you bought Android or Windows mobile.
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DZMacNutZ
Mar 18, 10:44 AM
The biggest reason that we have been Virus and attack free in general is because we have been such an exclusive club for so long. We have never been mainstream. We were always elitist and as such not a very lucrative target for hackers and virus creators.
Now that the Apple Club is becoming more and more mainstream and more of a middle class status symbol (and less of an upper class one), and therefore with a wider and larger user base, we will be more of a target for hackers.
I mean really when 92% of the world runs on Windows, and mere 5% runs on OSX, who would you target? But as that percentage begins to increase, and the typical Mac user has more money that the typical Windows user, the value associated with target us is becoming more and more lucrative.
Anyway, just my 2.
Now that the Apple Club is becoming more and more mainstream and more of a middle class status symbol (and less of an upper class one), and therefore with a wider and larger user base, we will be more of a target for hackers.
I mean really when 92% of the world runs on Windows, and mere 5% runs on OSX, who would you target? But as that percentage begins to increase, and the typical Mac user has more money that the typical Windows user, the value associated with target us is becoming more and more lucrative.
Anyway, just my 2.
Warbrain
Sep 26, 08:34 AM
Agrhhh... why does Apple have to be so stupid? Do they not know that there are vast areas here in the US where Cingular doesn't support?
Why the hell can't they just sell an unlocked phone and just let us choose providers that actually have service where we live? I really hope someone finds a way to hack these phones and make them carrier-independant! :mad:
There are vast areas that Verizon and Sprint don't cover in the US, too. It's that way with every single cell phone company in the US.
Apple would have to make at least 2 different phones for that to work. There are two primary cellular networks in the US: GSM and CDMA. If Apple makes just a GSM phone, they're also making a phone that can be used in almost every other country in the world. Europe and Asia are the real cell phone markets, not the US.
Why the hell can't they just sell an unlocked phone and just let us choose providers that actually have service where we live? I really hope someone finds a way to hack these phones and make them carrier-independant! :mad:
There are vast areas that Verizon and Sprint don't cover in the US, too. It's that way with every single cell phone company in the US.
Apple would have to make at least 2 different phones for that to work. There are two primary cellular networks in the US: GSM and CDMA. If Apple makes just a GSM phone, they're also making a phone that can be used in almost every other country in the world. Europe and Asia are the real cell phone markets, not the US.
FX120
Apr 16, 12:50 PM
Did you miss the USB to PS2 ports or are you just avoiding that? Are you also avoiding how I said it's too difficult for you to carry around an inch long adapter?
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how those adapters work. Going from thunderbolt to USB 3 would require active electronics embedded in the adapter. The $6 MDP to HDMI adapter is just copper internally because the signaling is compatible from the source.
LOL, the drive he was using WAS 7200-RPM so I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of this paragraph.
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10492
Again, you have a fundamental flaw in your argument that you're not addressing. It doesn't matter if the bus is capable of delivering massive speed when the source is incapable of serving data fast enough. Any single-drive enclosure that is currently available will be incapable of maxing out a USB 3 connection.
Your assumption is based on comparing two different technologies and assuming they will fare the same. My assumption was comparing ADAPTER prices. How expensive do you think adapters are? :rolleyes:
You can get them for super cheap if you know where to look.
When they contain active electronics, they get expensive. Apple's own MDP to dual-link DVI adapter is a great example, at $99.00. USB 3 and Thunderbolt are not electrically compatible, and therefore it is impossible to have a simple copper-only dongle that has a TB port on one end, and USB on the other.
Once again, YOU ARE BASING THIS ON PRESENT DAY SPEEDS THAT ARE ACHIEVABLE. This isn't a discussion about current theoretical limits, it's about the limits of the future because that's where these technologies will actually matter. The fact is that when we move to SSD transfer speeds USB 3 will get demolished.
Then why do you keep pointing to that article as proof that USB 3 is incapable of reaching it's theoretical maximum?
I never said it would go away. It said it will be used for the same things USB 2 is used for which is low bandwidth peripherals like mice which you don't need USB 3 for which is why it is essentially a useless upgrade.
USB 2 is the universal standard for high speed devices. If you think otherwise, you must have never used a USB thumb drive.
Yes, believe it or not we are talking about the future and the future for Thunderbolt looks a hell of a lot better than the future of USB 3 since it isn't locked at a certain bandwidth. Technology moves fast. The reason Intel decided to support USB 3 is simply because it is (as they said) complimentary to Thunderbolt. Once again you use Thunderbolt for things that need the speed and you use USB for low bandwidth peripherals.
Thunderbolt in a copper implementation is capped at 10Gbs. For higher speeds, the physical connections become impractical for "normal" devices, which is why Intel designed TB as a transport bus, say for a single cable between a tower and a monitor, which would then break the TB bus back into it's component protocols, including USB 3.
It has USB compatibility, hell it has compatibility with pretty much any IO on the planet. The connector is simply a means to an end and it scales much better for the future when said port is smaller.
Which as I said above, makes it practical for a transport bus. For replacing USB? Not so much. Backwards compatibility alone will likely dictate the continual presence of USB 3 ports on virtually every computer for years to come.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how those adapters work. Going from thunderbolt to USB 3 would require active electronics embedded in the adapter. The $6 MDP to HDMI adapter is just copper internally because the signaling is compatible from the source.
LOL, the drive he was using WAS 7200-RPM so I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of this paragraph.
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10492
Again, you have a fundamental flaw in your argument that you're not addressing. It doesn't matter if the bus is capable of delivering massive speed when the source is incapable of serving data fast enough. Any single-drive enclosure that is currently available will be incapable of maxing out a USB 3 connection.
Your assumption is based on comparing two different technologies and assuming they will fare the same. My assumption was comparing ADAPTER prices. How expensive do you think adapters are? :rolleyes:
You can get them for super cheap if you know where to look.
When they contain active electronics, they get expensive. Apple's own MDP to dual-link DVI adapter is a great example, at $99.00. USB 3 and Thunderbolt are not electrically compatible, and therefore it is impossible to have a simple copper-only dongle that has a TB port on one end, and USB on the other.
Once again, YOU ARE BASING THIS ON PRESENT DAY SPEEDS THAT ARE ACHIEVABLE. This isn't a discussion about current theoretical limits, it's about the limits of the future because that's where these technologies will actually matter. The fact is that when we move to SSD transfer speeds USB 3 will get demolished.
Then why do you keep pointing to that article as proof that USB 3 is incapable of reaching it's theoretical maximum?
I never said it would go away. It said it will be used for the same things USB 2 is used for which is low bandwidth peripherals like mice which you don't need USB 3 for which is why it is essentially a useless upgrade.
USB 2 is the universal standard for high speed devices. If you think otherwise, you must have never used a USB thumb drive.
Yes, believe it or not we are talking about the future and the future for Thunderbolt looks a hell of a lot better than the future of USB 3 since it isn't locked at a certain bandwidth. Technology moves fast. The reason Intel decided to support USB 3 is simply because it is (as they said) complimentary to Thunderbolt. Once again you use Thunderbolt for things that need the speed and you use USB for low bandwidth peripherals.
Thunderbolt in a copper implementation is capped at 10Gbs. For higher speeds, the physical connections become impractical for "normal" devices, which is why Intel designed TB as a transport bus, say for a single cable between a tower and a monitor, which would then break the TB bus back into it's component protocols, including USB 3.
It has USB compatibility, hell it has compatibility with pretty much any IO on the planet. The connector is simply a means to an end and it scales much better for the future when said port is smaller.
Which as I said above, makes it practical for a transport bus. For replacing USB? Not so much. Backwards compatibility alone will likely dictate the continual presence of USB 3 ports on virtually every computer for years to come.
mmmcheese
Sep 15, 05:58 PM
A shame about scrapping the idea of a ground up design - I hope that doesn't lead to a lack of innovation. That's what really leads Apple along! Although if they just make a killer phone (I'm sure they will at some point...) it's bound to sell buckets loads!
Uber
This doesn't mean they will just re-brand a phone...it might just mean they are buying transmitters/etc. from other sources rather than engineering their own. Depending on what they buying "off the shelf," this only makes sense...why re-create the wheel?
Of course they may end up just re-branding a phone, but that doesn't really seem like the Apple thing to do.
Uber
This doesn't mean they will just re-brand a phone...it might just mean they are buying transmitters/etc. from other sources rather than engineering their own. Depending on what they buying "off the shelf," this only makes sense...why re-create the wheel?
Of course they may end up just re-branding a phone, but that doesn't really seem like the Apple thing to do.
Amazing Iceman
Apr 4, 12:10 PM
Why did they say "went bad"? As robberies go killing the robber is about as good as it gets.
It was either the guard or the robber, and if the robber wins, other innocent people may get shot too. You may not understand it, unless it happened to someone close to you.
If the robber had a gun, he planned to use it if necessary. He was not going to have any consideration for whoever he shoots, as long as he could get away with his crime.
It was either the guard or the robber, and if the robber wins, other innocent people may get shot too. You may not understand it, unless it happened to someone close to you.
If the robber had a gun, he planned to use it if necessary. He was not going to have any consideration for whoever he shoots, as long as he could get away with his crime.
Manic Mouse
Sep 10, 06:46 AM
Powerbook G5 tomorrow!!! LOL ok, ok.. before someone shoots me .....
I would really like a mid range mac, and kentsfield would be ideal! Everyone is worried about such a machine taking away sales from either the Mac Pro or the imac, but I still say apple should just be smart enough and feature it so that people either have to to imac, mac extreme or mac pro. 2 pci express slots, single optical drive, smaller amount of total memory, instead of having people have to go for the mac pro why cant apple make the mac pro the real high end workstation and have something smaller be a the mainstream workstation?
The margins on a mid-mac should be better than the iMac since it's using standard (and therefore cheap) desktop components. So any mid-mac sales in preference to the iMac would probably make Apple more money anyway.
I would really like a mid range mac, and kentsfield would be ideal! Everyone is worried about such a machine taking away sales from either the Mac Pro or the imac, but I still say apple should just be smart enough and feature it so that people either have to to imac, mac extreme or mac pro. 2 pci express slots, single optical drive, smaller amount of total memory, instead of having people have to go for the mac pro why cant apple make the mac pro the real high end workstation and have something smaller be a the mainstream workstation?
The margins on a mid-mac should be better than the iMac since it's using standard (and therefore cheap) desktop components. So any mid-mac sales in preference to the iMac would probably make Apple more money anyway.
Danksi
Sep 26, 11:18 AM
O2 has nothing to do with Orange. They're completely seperate companies with different parent companies. I believe Orange are owned by France telecom, where as O2 are owned by Telefonica.
Jay
Correct. My ex-colleagues are learning Spanish! :D
Jay
Correct. My ex-colleagues are learning Spanish! :D
kanedavid
Apr 29, 07:55 PM
Microsoft is still doing very well. They're making the best products they ever have done and as a customer I am very pleased with all of my Microsoft purchases.
All great products and deserve to be class leaders if they are not already. I can't think of another company (including Apple) that has put out such a fantastic range of very good products.
You forget one thing neiltc13.... not many people seem to share your views:
� Zune Desktop Software.... way more people prefer the iTunes ecosphere (which isn't perfect either mind you).
� Zune Hardware... This is clearly a product flop... just like M$ and it's PlaysForSure DRM. Apple's iPod after 10 years still blitzes the portable music device market.
� Windows Phone 7... Yes, Windows 7 is a significant improvement over any previous boost phone OS from M$... a shame that they had to really copy the whole "multi-touch" concept from someone else. But M$ has a long way to catch up with Apple and Google with their offerings and as yet, it would suggest that Apple and Google are still better than M$.
� Windows 7... It's a LOT better than anything M$ has released in the past. All credit to them on this one. But it's uptake hasn't really been all that good though and Microsoft continues to do the "value-add" model by charging more for greater feature sets across it various Windows editions... Too many choices for people that don't understand. Just make one version and price it at $99 and they'll get a much better uptake.
� Office 2010... Yes, it's WAY better than any offering from other companies (for Excel at least). Not sure that Office 2010 is necessarily better than Office 2007 though.
� Office 2001 for Mac - Yes, especially Outlook 2011 for Mac. There was never any reason why Microsoft could not have upgraded it's old Classic Mac version of Outlook 2001 all along rather than develop it's Entourage product which in my opinion was always Microsofts half-assed way of limiting Mac Support in an attempt to marginalise the Mac platform. Guess what? It hasn't really worked so now Microsoft have realised that the best approach is to try and embrace the fact that Apple's Mac OS isn't going away anytime soon so it might as well support it properly.
� Xbox 360 - It's a pretty good product, but compared to the other two 7th generation Game Consoles (PS3/Wii), XBOX trails in third place in all markets except the US where it is second behind Wii.
� Xbox Live - Still an immature product (along with Sony's and Wii's equivalent!). I don't think ANY of the current offerings are that good really but Microsoft has a LOT more experience in internet technologies so you'd expect that Microsoft should be able to come up with something that is better than it is.
Microsoft's problem is that it struggles to actually invent something that appeals to consumers in a way that allows them to command a higher price until the market matures. Technology is a tough market to be in because most technology products fall in value dramatically when a product matures, and margins become very thin and in many cases unsustainable. The only real way to make a lot of dosh in technology is to continually be innovative and invent something new that captivates people. Simply copying someone else all the time won't cut it.
Apple started it's revolution with the iPod well before most other MP3 players came out and so it commanded a higher price (therefore profits) than conventional music devices of the time (CD Discman, Minidisc etc) had. Then just as all the me-too players jumped on the bandwagon, Apple move onto it's next innovation... iTunes Store... then iPhone... then App Store... and now the iPad.
When Microsoft goes back to it's heyday and starts being innovative like Apple and Google are now, they'll again start making a lot more money again.
All great products and deserve to be class leaders if they are not already. I can't think of another company (including Apple) that has put out such a fantastic range of very good products.
You forget one thing neiltc13.... not many people seem to share your views:
� Zune Desktop Software.... way more people prefer the iTunes ecosphere (which isn't perfect either mind you).
� Zune Hardware... This is clearly a product flop... just like M$ and it's PlaysForSure DRM. Apple's iPod after 10 years still blitzes the portable music device market.
� Windows Phone 7... Yes, Windows 7 is a significant improvement over any previous boost phone OS from M$... a shame that they had to really copy the whole "multi-touch" concept from someone else. But M$ has a long way to catch up with Apple and Google with their offerings and as yet, it would suggest that Apple and Google are still better than M$.
� Windows 7... It's a LOT better than anything M$ has released in the past. All credit to them on this one. But it's uptake hasn't really been all that good though and Microsoft continues to do the "value-add" model by charging more for greater feature sets across it various Windows editions... Too many choices for people that don't understand. Just make one version and price it at $99 and they'll get a much better uptake.
� Office 2010... Yes, it's WAY better than any offering from other companies (for Excel at least). Not sure that Office 2010 is necessarily better than Office 2007 though.
� Office 2001 for Mac - Yes, especially Outlook 2011 for Mac. There was never any reason why Microsoft could not have upgraded it's old Classic Mac version of Outlook 2001 all along rather than develop it's Entourage product which in my opinion was always Microsofts half-assed way of limiting Mac Support in an attempt to marginalise the Mac platform. Guess what? It hasn't really worked so now Microsoft have realised that the best approach is to try and embrace the fact that Apple's Mac OS isn't going away anytime soon so it might as well support it properly.
� Xbox 360 - It's a pretty good product, but compared to the other two 7th generation Game Consoles (PS3/Wii), XBOX trails in third place in all markets except the US where it is second behind Wii.
� Xbox Live - Still an immature product (along with Sony's and Wii's equivalent!). I don't think ANY of the current offerings are that good really but Microsoft has a LOT more experience in internet technologies so you'd expect that Microsoft should be able to come up with something that is better than it is.
Microsoft's problem is that it struggles to actually invent something that appeals to consumers in a way that allows them to command a higher price until the market matures. Technology is a tough market to be in because most technology products fall in value dramatically when a product matures, and margins become very thin and in many cases unsustainable. The only real way to make a lot of dosh in technology is to continually be innovative and invent something new that captivates people. Simply copying someone else all the time won't cut it.
Apple started it's revolution with the iPod well before most other MP3 players came out and so it commanded a higher price (therefore profits) than conventional music devices of the time (CD Discman, Minidisc etc) had. Then just as all the me-too players jumped on the bandwagon, Apple move onto it's next innovation... iTunes Store... then iPhone... then App Store... and now the iPad.
When Microsoft goes back to it's heyday and starts being innovative like Apple and Google are now, they'll again start making a lot more money again.
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